so as i say it and, it's fascinating to me that both timothy mcveigh and nelson mandela used the same motto and guys like tom jones, white working class who makes common cause with those below him rather then turns him into the enemy. >> host: is the thomas frank what's the matter with kansas idea that you quote in the book which is this argument you're hating the wrong people. like instead of taking the clifford powers that have shifted your job completely overseas and forgot about you you hate the people below you, you hate women, black people. >> guest: i have great respect for that argument as well because i think that there is a kind of distraction going on very often and it's a very seductive distraction. >> host: one of your most original chapters is about the rampage shooter and what we did wrong and you sort of reconceive who he is. can you talk about that? >> host: the school shooter. >> guest: i also have a chapter on the guys that go postal. >> host: i mean the young school shooters, like the columbine and those guys. just cut i'm flattered that you think i have a new take